Il Druido (2)

[luciop1989]

Scrivo qui per non aprire altri topic.

Qualcuno ha idea di come si affronti un campo antimagia con un incantatore?

(in particolare druidi e maghi)

[skallo]

stai parlando di quello del beholder?

[luciop1989]

stai parlando di quello del beholder?

Pensavo a quello di un chierico,ma generalmente qualsivoglia campo antimagico..

ancora una cosa: uno psion non vede negati i suoi poteri nel campo antimagico vero?

[Wazabo]

Dipende da come tratta i poteri psionici il tuo master. Comunque si i campi anti magia sono la cosa peggiore da affrontare per dei caster. Considera che se non è un cheater of mystra, neppure il chierico può usare incantesimi.

[skallo]

dovresti aggirarlo il campoantimagia, se una creatura ci si mette in mezzo falla spingere fuori dal tank e poi bombardala di magie.

nel caso del beholder, basta usare un teleport e andare alle sue spalle..

[luciop1989]

Considera che se non è un cheater of mystra, neppure il chierico può usare incantesimi.

Qualche tempo fa ho letto su questo forum di incantesimi selettivi,e senza pensarci l'ho mostrato al master.

Quindi il chierico può usarli..

[Wazabo]

Create un muro di pietra attorno al chierico per chiuderlo dentro. Lui lo romperà, ne create un altro. Ectect. Li finirà sti campi antimagia prima o poi.

[luciop1989]

Create un muro di pietra attorno al chierico per chiuderlo dentro. Lui lo romperà, ne create un altro. Ectect. Li finirà sti campi antimagia prima o poi.

Il nostro amico chierico non ne lanciava,ne aveva uno che non finiva,probabilmente persistente.

Comunque spero che il DM non ci rimetta contro un nemico uguale più volte..

[Wazabo]

Ma quindi l' avete ammazzato... Quindi che problema c'è?

Incantesimi selettivi in inglese che talento è? O da che manuale proviene. Perchè io conosco un metodo per lanciare incantesimi da un campo di antimagia, ma non è utilizzando questo talento.

Ah un altro sistema è utilizzare portale. Richiama qualcosa di incredibilmente grosso, magari che casta epico. Non so cosa dirti di più.

[luciop1989]

Ma quindi l' avete ammazzato... Quindi che problema c'è?

Incantesimi selettivi in inglese che talento è? O da che manuale proviene. Perchè io conosco un metodo per lanciare incantesimi da un campo di antimagia, ma non è utilizzando questo talento.

Ah un altro sistema è utilizzare portale. Richiama qualcosa di incredibilmente grosso, magari che casta epico. Non so cosa dirti di più.

E' dello splendente sud,in pratica tu scegli una persona ed un incantesimo ad area.quell'incantesimo non influenza quella persona.

Il fatto è che ci ha dato un sacco di botte pur non dovendo essere la sfida del secolo.

se il dm ci rimette una cosa del genere,ma con 2 chierici,non ce la facciamo..

[Wazabo]

No, quella è una sfida del secolo. E' roba teoretica tipo punpun per intenderci, non a caso io prima l' ho chiamato Cheater of Mystra (un altro sistema per fare la stessa cosa).

Portale --> Titano --> Portale --> Titano --> Portale --> Titano.

E sperate di vincere con 4 - 5 Titani in campo.

Voglio dire non so come siete abituati a giocare, ma di tricks ce ne sono parecchi eh. Sinceramente a me giocare così non mi direbbe niente.

[LudTW]

Il fatto è che ci ha dato un sacco di botte pur non dovendo essere la sfida del secolo.

se il dm ci rimette una cosa del genere,ma con 2 chierici,non ce la facciamo..

Se il tuo Dm ha visto che avete fatto molta fatica a batterne uno è improbabile che ne metta due della stessa potenza, vorrebbe dire che vuole farvi fuori tutti.

[skallo]

com'è composto il vostro party? livello?

[luciop1989]

Se il tuo Dm ha visto che avete fatto molta fatica a batterne uno è improbabile che ne metta due della stessa potenza, vorrebbe dire che vuole farvi fuori tutti.

Giusto,vista così possiamo aspettarci che non ripresenti una cosa del genere,o almeno sperare

No, quella è una sfida del secolo. E' roba teoretica tipo punpun per intenderci

cos'è punpun?

[Wazabo]

Un sistema per arrivare ad avere qualsiasi stats abilità skill ts hp a +infinito. Inoltre puoi diventare un dio con infiniti gradi divini ect.

In pratica la teorizzazione massima di D&D.

[luciop1989]

com'è composto il vostro party? livello?

Siamo tutti di 12°

druido (io) barbaro mago stregone

[luciop1989]

Un sistema per arrivare ad avere qualsiasi stats abilità skill ts hp a +infinito. Inoltre puoi diventare un dio con infiniti gradi divini ect.

In pratica la teorizzazione massima di D&D.

Tutto questo mi sta incuriosendo.e come si costruisce?

[skallo]

Siamo tutti di 12°

druido (io) barbaro mago stregone

accidenti, 3 caster su 4 personaggi..

l'unico che può fare qualcosa è il barbaro..

e magari anche il tuo compagno animale.

quindi, o ti metti a curare il barbaro ogni volta che prende del danno, mentre lui fa il suo dovere all'interno del campo antimagia, ed esce ogni volta che viene danneggiato.

o ti butti sul compagno animale.

[luciop1989]

accidenti, 3 caster su 4 personaggi..

l'unico che può fare qualcosa è il barbaro..

e magari anche il tuo compagno animale.

quindi, o ti metti a curare il barbaro ogni volta che prende del danno, mentre lui fa il suo dovere all'interno del campo antimagia, ed esce ogni volta che viene danneggiato.

o ti butti sul compagno animale.

Il compagno animale quando entrava nel campo perdeva ogni potenziamento che gli avevo lanciato..

[LudTW]

Per rispondere a luciop

Tratto dal "The very best of CO" di Majere

PUN‐PUN

T H E M O S T P O W E R F U L C H A R A C T E R . E V E R .

KHAN THE DESTROYER

Pun-Pun, Divine Minion 1/Wizard 1/Master of Many Forms 3

Divine Minion 1.

Wizard 1. Endurance, Alertness (through viper familiar)

Master of Many Forms 1.

Master of Many Forms 2. Assume Supernatural Ability

Master of Many Forms 3.

The Fast Wildshape ability of the Divine Minion allows Pun-Pun to wildshape as an 11th level druid. The 3 levels in

Master of Many forms stack with the Fast Wildshape ability of the Divine Minion to allow Pun-Pun to assume the form

of a Monstrous Humanoid with up to 14 HD, like the Sarruhk (note the errata on Master of Many Forms).

Pun-Pun wildshapes into a Sarruhk and uses Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species) to use the Manipulate

Form ability. He uses Manipulate Form to bestow that very same ability (Manipulate Form) to his viper familiar.

Pun-Pun dismisses his Sarruhk form, and orders the familiar to grant him the Manipulate Form ability, using

Manipulate Form of course. Since Pun-Pun is a pathetic Kobold, he qualifies as a Scaled One (though a human or other

creature could simply Wild Shape into a form that qualifies as a Scaled One). Pun-Pun now has the strongest ability in

the game.

* Pun-Pun was originally a Kobold Egoist 12. Thanks to Jedrious, Turok124, and Hobojimathome for the quicker build.

Ability Scores:

Pun-Pun grants himeslf the Wu-Jen spell Giant Size as a spell-like ability at-will. He casts it on his familiar through the

Share Spells ability. This increases the viper to colossal size, granting the viper a +32 size bonus to strength. For the

average tiny viper, that means his sterngth score went from 4 to 36. Using the Manipulate Form ability, the viper then

increases Pun-Pun's strength score permanently, up to a maximum of 36 (the viper's own strength score). This is not

a size bonus to strength. The viper is using the ability of Manipulate Form to increase and decrease a creature's ability

score. No bonus is being given.

Pun-Pun's base strength score, with no bonuses of any sort, is now 36. Pun-Pun dismisses the spell effect on the

familiar and it goes back down to tiny size. The familiar's strength score goes back to 4. Pun-Pun uses Giant Size on

himself, growing to colossal size and gaining a +32 size bonus to strength. His strength score is now 68. Pun-Pun uses

the Manipulate Form ability to directly increase his familiar's strength score up to 68. Again, this isn't a size bonus that

he is giving the familiar, he is actually increasing the base score to match his own. Pun-Pun dismisses his Giant Size

effect, and he goes back to a small size with strength 36. The viper is still tiny size, with strength 68 now.

The viper repeats the process of growing to colossal size and increasing Pun-Pun's strength score. Pun-Pun does the

same. This process is repeated until Pun-Pun decides he is satisfied with his current strength score.

1. Cast Giant Size on familiar. Familiar becomes colossal and gains +32 size bonus to strength, giving the viper a total

strength score of 36.

2. The viper uses Manipulate Form to increase Pun-Pun's strength score up to a maximum equal to the viper's strength

score. In this case, 36. (This is not a bonus of any kind, he is augmenting Pun-Pun's original strength score.)

3. Pun-Pun dismisses the Giant Size effect on the viper. The viper goes back down to tiny size and 4 strength.

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4. Pun-Pun casts Giant Size on himself. His strength score is 36 from step 2, now he goes colossal and gains a +32

size bonus to strength. His strength is 68.

5. Pun-Pun uses Manipulate Form to increase the strength of his tiny viper familiar. To match Pun-Pun's strength

score, the viper's strength score is permanently increased from 4 to 68.

6. Pun-Pun dismisses the Giant Size effect on himself. He goes back to small size and 36 strength.

7. Pun-Pun casts Giant Size on his familiar. The viper becomes colossal and goes from 68 strength to 100 strength.

8. The viper uses Manipulate Form to permanently increase Pun-Pun's strength to 100.

9. Repeat process.

We'll just assume Pun-Pun decides to have a strength score of 20,010 (for a modifier of 10,000). Now, Pun-Pun gets

his other scores to the same ridiculous height.

(Note that Pun-Pun's scores are assumed to be arbitrarily high. Yes, 20,010 is high, but it is even larger than that. A

lot larger.)

To increase his other scores, Pun-Pun needs two abilities. The first one is the Bellflower Tattoo of the Tattooed Monk

(Complete Warrior). This ability allows Pun-Pun to add his charisma modifier as an enhancement bonus to any one of

his ability scores. The second ability is the Void Release ability of the Void Disciple (Complete Divine). This will allow

Pun-Pun to use his highest ability score modifier in place of a lower one.

Pun-Pun uses his Bellflower Tattoo to add his charisma score as an enhancement bonus to dexterity. But instead of

adding his charisma bonus, he uses Void Release to add his strength bonus. His strength bonus is +10,000. So, Pun-

Pun's dexterity score is now 10,000. He then uses Manipulate Form to increase his familiar's dexterity up to 10,000 as

well (remember, he isn't giving his familiar a bonus to dexterity, he is literally changing his familiar's base dexterity

score to match his own). Pun-Pun then dismisses the Bellflower effect, and his dexterity goes back down to normal.

The viper then uses Manipulate Form to increase Pun-Pun's dexterity score up to 10,000. This time, it isn't an

enhancement bonus, the familiar is using Manipulate Form to permanently change Pun-Pun's dexterity score to

10,000.

This process is repeated for each ability score. As Pun-Pun increases his strength score with the size-changing trick, he

can continue to use this method to increase his other stats as well. For this reason, all of Pun-Pun's ability scores are

assumed to be arbitrarily high.

Special Abilities:

According to the Monster Manual, all Special Attacks and Qualities are either Extraordinary, Spell-like, or Supernatural

abilities. Manipulate Form can grant any of these. As such, Pun-Pun is assumed to have any ability that is beneficial to

him or makes him more threatening as an opponent. Here is a list of abilities that he has (the list is nowhere near

exhaustive):

Any ability with the Ex, Su, or Sp descriptor found in a base class or prestige class is fair game with Manipulate Form.

Divinity:

Pun-Pun has the Ice Assassin spell as a spell-like ability at-will. He uses it to copy an arbitrarily high number of gods.

Pun-Pun then commands a god clone to make him a proxy. This makes Pun-Pun a rank 1 demigod. Pun-Pun then

makes another creature (Lokiyn, the originator of the trick, used squirrels) a proxy. This lowers Pun-Pun to divine rank

0. Pun-Pun then orders another ice assassin god to make him a proxy. At divine rank 1 again, Pun-Pun invests another

squirrel with a divine rank. Pun-Pun repeats this process a NI number of times.

Then, he uses a standard action to recall each divine rank back from the squirrels. A NI number of squirrels with 1

divine rank invested equals a NI number of divine ranks recalled and gained by Pun-Pun. This gives Pun-Pun a NI

divine rank.

Since Salient Divine Abilities are based on divine rank, Pun-Pun has a NI number of salient divine abilities. (That is at

least all of the ones in the book and includes the awesome Alter Reality.)

Nut-Pun

Rank 1 Demigod Squirrel

Tiny Animal

Hit Dice: 1/4d8 (2 HP)

Initiative: +2

Speed: 80 ft. (16 squares), climb 20 ft. (4 squares)

Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +1 divine rank) touch 15, flat-footed 13

Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-12

Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-4)

Full Attack: Bite +5 melee (1d3-4)

5

Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.

Special Attacks: Salient Divine Ability, Domain Powers, Spell-like Abilities

Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Scent, DR 15/epic, Divine Traits

Saves: Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +2

Abilities: Str 2, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 2

Skills: Balance +11, Climb +13, Hide +15, Move Silently +11, Swim +3

Feats: Weapon Finesse

Environment: Any

Organization: Solitary, Pair, NI God Horde

Challenge Rating: 1/8

Advancement: -

Level Adjustment: -

* Thanks to Lokiyn for this godly tactic. No squirrels were harmed in the making of this uber kobold.

Buffing Time:

Here are a couple of methods to reduce the buffing time.

Infinite Action Loop

The familiar manifests Synchronicity, giving himself a readied action. The familiar will use that readied action to

manifest Synchronicity again. Meanwhile, the effect of Synchronicity (the readied action) is passed over to Pun-Pun

through the Affinity Field. So, each time the familiar manifests Synchronicity, Pun-Pun gets a standard action. With

Font of Power, the familiar can continue manifesting Synchronicity in the 1 round for free, endlessly.

* Thanks to DisposableHero_ for this combo, and to Tempest Stormwind for helping me understand it.

Limitless HD:

There are several ways of going about this.

Energy Charge: I think this is the easiest way. The relevant rules can be found on page 211 of the Monster Manual 3.

Basically, it functions as the opposite of Energy Drain, adding effective HD to a creature. Since the effect is

supernatural, Pun-Pun can give himself a NI number of HD and make it permanent with Alter Reality.

* Thanks to RadicalTaoist for the Energy Charge discovery.

Awaken: The original method I used. Basically, Pun-Pun takes the form of an animal and just uses his Awaken spelllike

ability a NI number of times to gain HD. Boring, yes. But it gets the job done.

Feed: This method involves Pun-Pun granting himself the Feed ability of the Barghest. Pun-Pun can then feed on

humanoids to gain HD. The only hitch with this method is that it also involves using epic spells to summon humanoids

with more HD than you.

NI HD is useful because it will determine his caster/manifester levels for spell-like and psi-like abilities, the amount of

essentia Pun-Pun can invest, and all of the regular stuff associated with HD (BAB, skills, saves, etc.).

Limitless Reach:

For limitless reach, one needs the Magic of Incarnum supplement. The Umbral Disciple prestige class is found on page

158. Its 10th level ability is called Kiss of the Shadows. This is a supernatural ability that you can invest essentia into.

For each point of essentia you invest, your reach increases by 5 ft. The only limit is your essentia capacity. However,

essentia capacity is based on your HD, and Pun-Pun's HD is limitless thanks to Energy Charge.

Normally, the ability lasts only on your turn. But since it is a supernatural ability, it can be made permanent with the

Alter Reality salient divine ability. Note that if Pun-Pun does not have sufficient reach to threaten someone, he can just

immediately dump more essentia into it. And with a truly infinite Spot check (thanks to the Omniscificer trick) he can

see anyone at any distance and wether or not he can reach them.

Limitless Speed:

Pun-Pun can increase his speed without limit. This is thanks to the Incarnum Speed supernatural ability of Duskling

Barbarian substituion level in Magic of Incarnum (page 44). It gives you a +10' enhancement bonus to speed for each

point of essentia invested in the ability. And since Pun-Pun has NI essentia and NI essentia capacity, he can boost his

6

speed limitlessly. And thanks to his Free Move salient divine ability, Pun-Pun can move up to his NI speed as a free

action once each round.